GW2 – A need for competitive 3 way

I never had the opportunity to play GW1′s PvP, but I’ve heard good things about it from those who have.  I enjoy PvP/RvR of all sorts, especially coordinated play, and Arenanet will be continuing the competitive focus into GW2.

PvP is broken into two styles: Pickup and Competitive.  With a “hot join” setup similar to picking a server in TF2.

Quick Join Menu; easy to read and navigate.

Aside from all of the gameplay changes that GW2 is bringing to the MMO genre, what has been presented so far isn’t all that foreign.  The Battle of Kyhlo is a simple Team 1 – Team 2, Red vs. Blue, scenario (battleground, warfront, etc.) that Anet decided to use as its demo.   The main feature that creates disparity between GW2′s Conquest maps and other MMO scenarios is the inclusion of “Secondary Objectives” that have nothing to do with control points or flags.

Simplified armor color for better visual queues.

These can be trebuchets, repair kits, and destructible environments, like those in the Battle of Kyhlo map. In another map, for instance, a secondary objective takes the form of a giant dragon flying overhead, blasting portions of the map and killing players who are fighting below.

Secondary objectives allow us to create an environment where you always understand the basic objectives, no matter which map you’re playing, but they also let us create radically different high-level strategies through the unique mechanics of each map.

While these certainly add a level of “Ooo! Cool!” to an otherwise “Seen it before.” style of PvP, I think there is still something missing.  Something more needs to be provided to the competitive crowd.

We’ve yet to hear anything about World vs. World vs. World (or simply WvW), which will feature the highly sought after 3-way PvP.  Though it is meant to be a more “casual” style of open RvR (literally 3 servers/realms face off in an open map).

August 2011 photo of the WvW map

This is great to have that experience of “war all around” and any and all objective you choose to do, be it solo or group focused, will go to aid your server in the struggle.  WvW is what many players and pvp fans have been wanting from MMOs over the years and have sourly been disappointed.  Competitive players will be unable to get a consistent challenge in the WvW environment and will ultimately turn to the Tournament style maps.  Even with the “spice” Anet is adding to this style of PvP, the flavor is familiar.

Arenanet can make the competitive field much better with the addition of 3-way tournament maps.  There will be no need to remove the Red vs. Blue maps, those will remain viable and will still gather followers from the players who enjoy it.  However, 3-way maps give another tier of competition for those looking for a greater challenge.  The 3-way maps could be used in the same manner as the 2-way maps; hot joinable matches and competitive matches.

The way the PvP in GW2 is forming at this moment is promising and yet there is more potential Arenanet could tap into.

- Thrangis

GW2′s World vs World vs World

This is from a Q&A by Variance.hu

Are you planning to have several WvW maps from day one, or will there beonly a single map at launch?

John Corpening: There will be four maps at launch. We will be pitting three different worlds together in WvW. Each world will have a home map that connects to a center map. Teams can invade their opponents’ home maps by first going through the center map. So we expect the center map to be a crossroads of combat as each team does battle for the glory of their world.

The World vs World vs World (simply known as WvW) is quite similar to WAR’s RvR lakes.  Initially it seems like one massive battleground/scenario/warfront that any player from your server can enter into at any given time.  No true assertions can be made until we have the opportunity to test it, but I’m curious about what measures are setup for low population situations.  I’ll look around the forums to see if I come across the comment, but I distinctly remember it being stated that WvW is not meant to balance your forces.  So your small group of 20 could be going up against an army of 100+.  What I’m trying to bring into subjectivity is the chance that you may want to enter WvW and find your server’s “map” completely overrun with enemy forces.  Of course, the inclusion of a third faction into PvP may make this point moot.

How are WvW maps going to be structured? Will it be a single map or severalsmaller maps?

Egan Hirvela: Players will start off in their own home maps. Here, they will be able to take control of vital locations and get a feel for how our capture system works. Once they travel to the center map, each team begins at their own portal keep. From here they can move out and fight for control of various landmarks while battling players from other teams. We anticipate the battles to cross back and forth between the center map and the outlying home maps as teams gain and lose footholds.

Does this mean that each map is instanced?  “each team begins at their own portal keep.” Is somewhat indicative of a seamed WvW experience, though I hope this isn’t the case.  I’d hate to be required to zone in and out of each map to rush over to an important objective or chase a fleeing enemy.

What kind of strategically important landmarks/locations will reside on aWvW map and what impact will those have on a battle?

Matt Witter: Each type of World vs World objective has strategic value. While I can’t delve too deeply into the specifics of how each objective type works. I can say that there is no wrong way to take part in WvW. If you are a solo player, small group player or large group player there is always something for you to accomplish. If the enemy is held up in a fully upgraded fortress and you are not the type of player that enjoys large scale combat, you can simply cut off their supply routes, and deprive the defenders of resources they need in order to maintain their defense. If you are planning on just working together as a small guild, you can easily take towers that cut reinforcements, and supplies off.

I appreciate the attention given to different play styles.  Many players that I have talked with enjoy the “lone wolf” experience and finding other individuals or small groups to unleash their fury upon.  Creating actual objectives with a “difficulty” built into them based upon your group size is an ingenious addition.  What I hope for is a strong presence from their Dynamic Event system inside of WvW, so that each objective is changed through a series of objectives throughout the course of WvW.  Thinking of the solo/group/guild PvPer is great, but if the objectives provided are ever found to be sub-par in benefits the players will be sure to mention it.  Also, if there is too little diversity in the objectives and they become a grind, players will opt for the quickest route to victory over a situation.  These are important factors to consider when creating open, objective based, PvP.

Thankfully they are avoiding many of the difficulties present in a dual faction system and building off of the strong tri-faction system.  This grants me a boost of confidence and nourishes my excitement.

- Thrangis

The “P-Letter” for June

While I wish 1.3.6 was already here, I’m looking forward to some of the many RVR changes they are planning.  It’s great to see that the many cries for change are actually getting acknowledged.

Also, I started up someserver censusposts for each server on the forum.  I’m hoping to get some scope on how players feel about their server population, balance, community, and overall attitude.  I’ll let it run for a few days until I feel satisfied or they crash and burn from too many trolls weighing it down and trying to light it on fire.

- Thrangis “The Red”

Warhammer: Age o’ Reconstruction

I have to say that I’ve really enjoyed Warhammer these last few months.  The direction that Mythic is taking with the game is definitely positive.  But, it still has more remodeling to do in order to maintain itself in the face of upcoming MMO’s.

I often find myself patrolling the WAR forums to see what people are saying.  I like to look at the Dev Roundtable, in the suggestion section, and see what players think will help make the game better.  Usually you’ll find some odd requests and suggestions, but not always.  :)

The general idea that I’ve seen present itself is a definite focus on T4 oRvR, if not all oRvR.  Such ideas as: better rewards for defending a zone from flipping, easier/harder to get to Altdorf and Inevitable City, bigger/smaller oRvR zones, active additions/changes to make oRvR zones fresh and interesting, etc.

The players want the game to thrive, obviously.  They want the game to keep them playing.  It’s all up to whether or not Mythic has something in the workshop, which I hope they do.

But, I’m up right now and it’s 3:14 am on a Wednesday morning, playing WAR to my enjoyment with my brother.  I hope that Mythic truly gets that the players want to play their game.

- Thrangis “The Red”

Mourkain Temple – Tier 2

- Intro -

Alright, back again with a Mourkain edition.  I would like to state for the record that, these are my thoughts on Mourkain Temple from a solo perspective, seeing as your only real goal (in terms of teamwork) is to stick with with the mob.  Also, you don’t need a mount in order to be good at Mourkain Temple, though I’ve heard it argued otherwise.  The artifact does not spawn right away, so there is really no point in being the first one to the middle.  Stick with your group, do your part.

Now, if you’ve played Mourkain you have noticed that it works very differently than Nordenwatch or Ekrund.  So, instead of just giving you routes to take for situations I’ll actually give my thoughts on what classes should and should not be doing.  But first, who should be carrying the artifact anyway?

- Artifact Carriers -

From best to least effective, in my opinion.

1. Ranged DPS

- The reason for this is purely the kills.  You have the benefit of staying in the back of the fight, near the healers.  You also have the benefit of killing the most people. For every player the Artifact holder kills, your team gets 20-30 points (a verify would be nice, hammerwiki isn’t even sure). The biggest problem with ranged having the artifact is the possibility of a flank, in which case you and your healers will not last very long.  Ranged dps is best for the artifact when you know you’re pushing the enemy back to their spawn.

2. Tanks

- The obvious choice for holding things that you don’t want the enemy to get.  However, where they shine in surviving (especially with healer),  they’re lackluster (in most cases), at killing the enemy. I would recommend a tank if the enemy has either a lot of ranged dps or melee dps, since tanks are built to take damage.  I feel the same applies when using a great weapon.

3. Melee DPS

- I would only trust a melee dps with the artifact if I knew they were going to get dedicated heals.  The great thing about a melee dps with the artifact is they’ll usually be with the mob, so they won’t get mobbed.  The biggest problem I see with a melee dps holding the artifact, is they sit behind their group while they’re group does all the killing.  I feel that they could be helping their group better, thus leaving the artifact for someone else who can stay in the back and still be assisting from range.

4. Healers

- Now, I personally have won many games by picking up the artifact on my healer.  They have the perfect position away from the enemy, and they can still be useful.  They can also keep themselves healed during the increasing damage from holding the artifact. However, I would only suggest doing this on a healer when you can safely stay in the back without threat of flanks.  I’m not sure if you will get more points (from holding the artifact) for your team while assisting them in kills through healing (a verify on this would be nice as well).

A word of caution, you will be able to maintain your healing only for the first few moments.  The artifact will begin to dish out considerable damage with prolonged holding and your attention will shift from your teammates to you alone.  If you have AoE heals this works perfectly, but if not just use your quick heals and HOTs to help your team.  If you are the only healer, DO NOT pick up the artifact.


- Ranged DPS -

Hopefully you won’t have too many of then.  Nothing worse than a group whose initial reaction is to run away and stay at range.

[Doing]:

If the enemy has the artifact, he should be your target.  No one else.  Even with heals, you + the artifact means he is going to die.  Who knows, maybe your efforts to win the scenario will single-handedly secure victory.  More likely you’ll have to remind your entire team that the enemy has the artifact and is getting lots of points.

If your team has the artifact and you aren’t the one holding it, focus on the healers and ranged dps.  Keep your AoE roots/snares ready for those coming towards the healers, as well as your knock backs for melee harassers.

[Not Doing]:

Running away and continually attacking the “mob” that is your enemy.  If you are trying to kill the mob, you’re not going to be very affective.  In fact, you’ll most likely pull the attention of the mob and they’ll come barreling down on you.  You’ll try to run away because you’re squishy, thus effectively killing all the healers you are nearby.  Players are pretty simple minded about some of their fights, kill what’s in front of them or hurting them the most.  Try not to make this you until you know you can kill them.

- Tanks -

Always good to have and from my experiences, the more the merrier… up to 5.

[Doing]:

Guarding, make sure this is always on someone, with priority being: Artifact holder, Healers, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, other Tanks.

Your knock backs are perfect for bringing the enemy artifact holder to your team.  It’s very simple to march through their lines, get behind him, and send him flying towards your mob.  Just remember collision detection, you’ll have to weave through your enemy’s ranks.

If you manage to catch wind of a flank moving in on your healers, and you’re currently not trying to kill the artifact holder, do you best to aid them within your means.

[Not Doing]:

Not paying attention to your healers and focusing on tanks.

If you’re passing by an enemy tank, just throw a slow on him or knock him down and move on.  You can kill them in the end, they’re not the biggest threat to you.  Don’t push too deep into the enemy mob, you will die.  Do your best to pick out melee dps targets that are grouping up with the tanks. The great thing about Mourkain is everyone gets very confined near the artifact, so the ranged dps and healers are not very far from the fight.

- Melee DPS -

You’ll have them, liking them is up to you.

[Doing]:

Keeping pressure on the healers and ranged dps.

Sometimes on my slayer, if the enemy has the artifact I’ll sit and watch his health.  When I have confirmed that the artifact is starting to do hefty damage to him, I’ll try to time my charge with one of the ticks of damage so I can drop him really quick.  Usually this works, as the enemy healers won’t always be able to keep him up after the timing of this event.  Be careful on charging through the enemy though, try a more indirect route around their mob to get to him, if he’s unfortunate enough to sit in the back.

[Not Doing]:

As melee dps, you should not be leaving the artifact holder if he is a tank or another melee dps.  The combined damage of the mob will help the artifact holder acquire more killing blows, thus giving your team more points.  Remember, this scenario is about kills.  The more kills at the hand of your artifact holder, the better.

- Healers -

If you’re lucky enough to get healers in your group…

[Doing]:

Usually the healers are good at doing their job, most have given up the attempt at being a DPS class and try their hardest to keep everyone alive.

I see a lot of healers doing poor positioning while they attempt to heal the group up.  Most of the fights are going to take place right in the middle of this map, it’s the way it’s designed.  The way the temple is built, you can make use of the walls and still heal your group.  Don’t stand where you’ll be instantly recognized and targeted by range.  Level 20 healers will have an advantage because of their AoE heals, so they can stand even further away from the fighting.

Farther back: Great LoS, but more succeptable to flank.

Position 1

Middle ground: Good balance in positioning, giving you a momentary advantage in case of flank.

Position 2

Front: right up near your heavies, safest from flank with slightly less forward-LoS.

Position 3

Adjust yourself properly to get your heals to those RPDS sitting on that grassy knoll!

Watch out for LoS blockers

[Update 6.11.10] – I modified my healing positions screen shot to include a simple Line of Sight (rough estimate of course) for each position.  As well as certain objects from those positions to watch out for.  Also, in position 3 you’ll be a lot closer to the fight so be on guard, but you won’t have to worry about RDPS.

A word of caution, be sure to keep your flank watched and call out incoming.  Every now and then Destro like to try this and kill all of the off guard healers.

[Not Doing]:

Leaving the artifact carrier unsupported.  A lot of players either forget that someone is carrying the flag, or they don’t think that anyone can get them in the back.  Here’s what you should remember, the person with the artifact begins to die as soon as they pick it up.  If you don’t keep an eye on them, they will be dead.

- The Map -

What should be happening.

- Quick Tips -

Do not bring the flag back to your spawn,  it’s an outdated tactic and you will turn into a chicken, drop the flag, and die if you get to close to your spawn.  Bring the fight to them, but do it intelligently.

In order to pick up the artifact, you must be very close to it.  I would even say, right on top of it.  It has a very short radius of interaction.  Be sure to spam that right click! (I’ll try to have a screenshot depicting this later)

- Final Note -

I will update with more screenshots later this week.  I foolishly attempted to make this during a weekend warfront… so. Yeah.  I had a hard time getting into a Mourkain Temple.  >:(

- Thrangis “The Red” Hammersmith, The Part-time Tactician